Erin Michele:    Hi, this is Erin Michele. Welcome to steps to trusting. It is my goal here to meet you where you are in your faith journey, and to encourage you to continue to take steps, to trusting the Lord more fully.

[00:00:17] Today, we’re going to be discussing the possibility that motherhood could be transformed by understanding our identity in Christ. I’m here with Bethany Kimsey. Bethany is a writer, a speaker. She can be found on Instagram @Bethanykimsey encouraging mothers to battle against worry and fatigue. She encourages them to instead rest in the hope of the gospel.

[00:00:44] Bethany believes God reaches down into the messiness of our lives to display his love mercy and grace. She would tell you as a mother of eight children, one of the messiest areas of her life has always been her motherhood. However, she would also tell you, she has seen God radically change her from weary, anxious, and frantic to peaceful, joyful and triumphant.

[00:01:09] I’m so pleased to welcome to the show. Bethany Kinsey, Bethany. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:01:16] Bethany: My pleasure to be here.

[00:01:17] Erin Michele: I was hoping before we jumped in, if you could tell us just a little bit about your family and where you are in your motherhood journey.

[00:01:25] Bethany: Okay. Well, I have eight children, so my oldest is 21 and then my youngest is four. So, I kind of span the spectrum of all ages.  We have four girls and four boys and, you know, really, some days I laugh because I feel like I am in the middle of still wiping bottoms and potty training children. And I’m also talking about major life decisions, about what we’re going to do for a career and who we might marry one day.

[00:01:58] So it’s can span the spectrum.

[00:02:00] Erin Michele: that’s a big challenge. I’m sure. To stand in both of those types of decision making. Almost two different worlds.

[00:02:08] Bethany: yes, yes. I really love it. It has made it very exciting.  I think a lot of it is a space where the Lord has allowed me to learn. I mean, I always kind of felt like I had no idea what I was doing with my first, at least now I still don’t feel like I know what I’m doing, but I have learned there’s so much grace and I have learned, maybe I have some tools in my toolbox to try. I haven’t yet, you know, people ask me, have you had the same child twice? And I haven’t, I don’t think that God doesn’t make repeat. And that really goes even for parenting. So, what works for one child? Doesn’t necessarily ever work again?

[00:02:48] Erin Michele: Yeah. So constantly having to learn something new for somebody new or a new stage.

[00:02:53] Bethany: yeah. But he is so faithful in that.

[00:02:56] Erin Michele: That’s a blessing. So, Bethany, I wanted to point out something that you told me. I noticed that you mentioned that God has changed you from weary, anxious, and frantic to peaceful, joyful and triumphant. I noticed that you didn’t say motherhood has changed. Can you tell us a little bit more about that statement?

[00:03:15] Bethany: Yes. And I think that’s an important perspective for us as mothers. I wanted to be a mom. I was one of those women who I had a career, but I wanted to be a mom. And I just knew that that would be for me this special space. That’s how I had envisioned it.

[00:03:34] Yet, when I walked into it, you didn’t find it as special or as easy or as comfortable or as natural as I thought I was going to be in that space. And so, coming to the end of maybe even that dream, that concept and finding God there. And realizing that God in essence says to each of us, it’s not motherhood that will define you. But when you walk with me inside of motherhood, I will show you how I define you.

[00:04:10] And I will begin to change you and show you how you confess in me for your motherhood, for all the spaces and other heads that feel hard and scary and confusing.  When I began to shift my focus from all the performance driven ideas and ideals that I held to, instead, I am walking with Jesus in this day.

[00:04:40] And I’m going to let him define how this day goes forward and I’m going to also let him define my performance for instance, or the expectations, or, you know, my value. So, my value is not defined in whether or not my child has a great day or not. And I’m a great mom. My value has already been predetermined.

[00:04:59] And so walking in light of that then actually gave me so much freedom to just rest in this moment where previously I was all in, knots with not doing this right.

[00:05:14] Erin Michele: I relate to that a lot. I actually felt like I was really good at being a mom until my kids turned like two, three, you know, it was like, I’m so good at this. Right. And so, when it started to be like, I felt like, Oh, well I could be defined as a good mom. And then when they were not behaving like I wanted them to behave. All of a sudden I was like, Oh, well now I’m a bad mom.  Before I was a good mom, because they were taken care of and they were happy.  But then all of a sudden I was seeing myself as this bad mom, because they couldn’t get my kids to obey. I couldn’t get them to do what I wanted them to do. It could be such a defining role in our lives.

[00:05:55] If we let ourselves be defined by our kids’ actions.

[00:05:59] I love that in Christ though, it doesn’t have to be that way.

[00:06:03] Bethany: Right. There is still always going to be, for me at least, that battle of understanding that is almost a daily surrender. So, it isn’t like a one and done, Oh, I got it. And I’m moving on because for me, I hear that message from culture that motherhood can define me.

[00:06:25] And then innate inside of me is a desire to perform well. So, it is almost this daily redirection of my thoughts, to understand that the gospel is for today. So, Jesus is for today. And I do think for me that that actually was also this learning point of going, Oh man, I’m back here again.

[00:06:48] I’m still struggling in this space. This is daily, daily changing and it’s going to be okay. Even that everyday has to be reminded.

[00:06:56] Erin Michele: I love that you said that because I think that I was actually sitting this morning, just kind of contemplating for our conversation. And I was just thinking   this has been something that I decided long ago that I was not going to be defined by motherhood. Then other things happen in life. And all of a sudden I realized at different points, I’m back in that place, feeling like a bad mom, because I’m not doing the things that society says I should do.   I’m not the Pinterest mom. I’m not, you know,

[00:07:25] Bethany: Not either.

[00:07:27] Erin Michele: there’s plenty of things, things like that. You know, the expectation where we say, well, other people are doing this specific thing with their kids.

[00:07:35] They’re going out and doing this and I’m not right. And so I love that. You said it is a daily thing. It’s not a, I decided this long ago, it’s that we have to continually decide that I’m not going to compare myself to what the world says so that I can either be a good mom or a bad mom, but be defined by the gospel.

[00:07:54] You mentioned surrender as you were talking.  So what made you feel that need to surrender those feelings to the Lord?

[00:08:02] Bethany: I mean, honestly, it’s kind of like what you just said. I had our first three children really fast. So, our first two are only 18 months apart. And then we had a third right at the two year mark. So we had three under, well at first they were three under three for this few months. And then they were three under four years old.

[00:08:25] And my husband, is he’s a surgeon. And so he was in residency. And so his hours in residency back then, like now they have actually better workweek. That back then were more old school. We were the last of the old school crop and it was rough. But he was really not home a whole lot.

[00:08:46]And I just have this vivid memory. We lived in this tiny little house and I had a three year old and an almost two year old who I was trying to potty train and a baby.  The three year old was inquisitive and running around and very busy. I remember I was nursing. The two year old needed me on the toilet. and I needed to wipe them?

[00:09:09] The three year old is running through the house. Nothing was bad. It wasn’t like, it was actually a moment that’s like nothing was falling apart. And there’s many moments where I’ve had where like, I’m like, everything is falling apart, but it was this moment where it was in this out of body way. I kind of said to myself, what am I doing?

[00:09:28] Like I am nursing a baby and wiping a tail at the same time in the bathroom. And then I have a three your old. I’m not even sure what he’s doing. I’m not sure I’m doing this well. But there was no indication that I was failing even. It was just this residing feeling of, do I know what I’m doing? Is this how people live?

[00:09:52]This right? And, you know, and there was a part of me that was like, I mean,  I have degrees and I had a great career. Cause at this point I was staying home. I did, I did a little bit of work. I was a physical therapist. I did some  part time work at that time, but it was just a day that I was home.  At that moment, I cleaned up the child who’s on toilet and I sat  on side of the bathtub with the Lord for a moment.  I was honestly just crying out to God and  praying. I wanted to know who God was. I was seeking him, but sitting on the bathtub that day, I distinctly remember just praying, going I mean, what, helped me Lord? And so the scriptures that I had been studying in that time  in Psalms, where he talks about,  that his heart is tuned to us and that he is listening to us. And then I had, there’s a passage in Isaiah where it talks about the fact that he gently leads those of us with young.  As I thought about the passage it was like the Lord.  Almost said to me,  when you surrender, you’ll begin to understand my purpose. And so it really, for me, was in that season of dying to, I, you know, I liked things orderly. I had this vision of how I was going to do this mothering thing. I like my children to be well-behaved. I just, there was a lot. And then I was juggling my own little job that I wanted to keep.  I, you know, and I wanted it to make it, I wanted to be good there.

[00:11:24] And yet I felt like I was just kind of chaotic there. and instead I began this season of saying when I would bring to him all of  the chaos and him begin to go. Okay. So let’s lay it down. I invite you to lay it down and then ask yourself in essence, this question. Okay God. So in this space where I feel chaotic, what does your word say?

[00:11:53] What is a promise I can hold to and what is a lie I’m believing? So the lie may be I’m believing the lie that. My value or worth as a mom is only reflected with my children behave and get along. And today everybody’s hitting one another and screaming. So therefore I am not a good mom now that is not truth, but there it feels true.

[00:12:24] Erin Michele: right

[00:12:25] Bethany: So it is understanding that that is a lie. And then what is the promise of God that is true? So the promise of God that combats that lie. First of all, is a lot that there’s a lot of identity in that too. The lie of identity is that my value, my identity is wrapped up in what my children do. So that’s a lie that we need to combat with the truth of the gospel of how God sees me.

[00:12:50] So I’m his precious prize creation. He peruses me. He loves me deeply. So I would pursue those scriptures. But then the secondary lie is that if my children are fighting and screaming and fencing each other, they have a secondary lie. I think for me, there is have, and so therefore I am responsible for their sin and I own their sin and therefore I need to fix their sin.

[00:13:22] And there’s only one who can fix and change the hearts of our children. And it’s not you. And it’s not me. and so combating those two things became this place of surrender for me, where I began to go. Okay. So what’s the lie. Okay. What’s the truth. Okay. I’m going to stand and the truth in this moment.

[00:13:40]Erin Michele: What’s one of those truths that you went to often?

[00:13:43]Bethany: I think Isaiah 40 11 was a big one for me.

[00:13:47] Erin Michele: you mentioned that one earlier, but I’m going to go ahead and read it for us. He will tend his flock, like a shepherd. He will gather the lambs in his arms. He will carry them in his bosom and gently lead those that are with young.

[00:14:00]Can you walk us through a little bit more, of how you use this verse to stand on the truth of who God is and how you used this truth to combat the lies you were believing?

[00:14:12] Bethany: In that stage of life  Isaiah 40 11 was honestly, I had it on my bathroom mirror. I had it on our bedroom mirror. I had that truth where I could turn to it in those moments with my little people and go, ok God, you need to lead me, but I am standing on the promise that you do it gently.

[00:14:33] I am standing on this truth that you’re not harsh and you’re not mean, and you’re not angry. That you are compassionate and you gently lead us.  But I think also when you’re praying you begin to go, I just need to turn to you again.

[00:14:50] I need to get some truth and stand on the truth. Because I do believe that the biggest thing that God began to grow inside of me was the realization that the only thing that I needed was his word. So  my answers were found in his word for all parts of my motherhood even parts that are not explicitly in the word of God, because there’s not like this explicit chapter in the Bible that says, and this is how we mother, but all of the truths I needed.

[00:15:27] We’re in the word of God. And I had to begin to say, okay, then I’m going to be in the word of God. I’m going to find him.

[00:15:34] Erin Michele: Yeah, I think that’s so important. So often people say they want to seek God. I think the Bible is the first place to seek him. Right. Because we have to know him. How do we, how do we know that his message to you, in that moment is I care about you, but for, it says it in the Bible, like in first Peter five or seven, where it  tells us that we can cast our anxieties on him  because he cares for us. There’s so many of these things hidden in his word to tell us his care for us, his love for us and our identity.

[00:16:08]It’s so important to be in God’s word,

[00:16:11]What other verses come to mind. When you think about the identity and the promises you were standing on ?

[00:16:17]Bethany:  Isaiah 55 God talks about, in Isaiah 55, he begins the passage by saying, come all of you who are thirsty, come and buy.  And eat and feast, even though you have no money, even though you have nothing to spend to get this and that invitation for you and for me, when I read that, I remember reading that one day and going that’s for me because so many times want to come to God with my, Oh, this is what I already know. This is what I’m bringing.    Almost like an exchange? So I’m bringing this. Can I now have some from you? And God goes you need nothing.

[00:16:59] I’m buying it all. I am so funding you and not only am I funding you for in scripture and that stuff, not just for you to get. The bread and the milk, but the wine and the fattening food that I can’t remember if it says meat or, but it implies like the choices of the choices. And then later on in that scripture is where he says, and we’d love to quote this, but that his scripture will not return void, but will accomplish what he sets it forth to do.

[00:17:32] But that’s because he’s totally given us this invitation to come and to sit there and to just feast. And so when we begin to go, Oh, his heartbeat is for me to be totally learning and understanding what this Bible is all about. Then he meets us at that table. I mean, he laid the table he’s there.  Then the more we see the truth of God begin to work in our lives the more we want to know the truth of God.

[00:18:04] Erin Michele: Right. And I think  if we were to look back at the beginning of  your journey, that first step in trusting in surrender is that  you said you decided to  make a point to be in his word. Right. And that, I think that is one of The first steps that has to happen. When we, when we decide we’re going to surrender, we need to figure out what is in his word that we are actually even surrendering to.

[00:18:28]I love this point of being in God’s word and I love,

[00:18:32] How we can see the effects of being in God’s word. We want to know him more.

[00:18:37]I think this is so true. I’ve actually experienced that where the more I got into God’s word, the more I wanted to know, the more I realized I really needed it.  And the more I really loved coming to God in his word and hearing who he is and what he has to say. You guys God’s word changes us.  I think there has to be a decision for us to start to be in God’s word.  We actually  might  start in a place where we don’t want to be in God’s word. It’s not always exciting. Sometimes it starts as just a choice that we make. And so actually  to all our listeners, I want to pause us here.  We’re going to stop our conversation with Bethany and we’re actually going to pick up here next time with her and continue the rest of the conversation.

[00:19:26] But I want to pause here at this moment, and I want to challenge you to think about, are you in God’s word? Do you know what God has to say about you? Do you know, the promises that we can stand on?  As we pause there, and as we consider, I want to just challenge you guys to maybe this week, choose to read the Bible all week.

[00:19:50]I want to encourage you to do this because I know that it will affect you.  Bethany quoted this first today, and it’s in Isaiah 55: 11. It says, so shall my word be that goes out from my mouth. It shall not return to me empty.

[00:20:07] It shall accomplish that, which I purpose and shall succeed for the thing for which I sent it. God’s word affects us. It will not return void. It will not come back empty. And so I encourage you to make a commitment to be in God’s word. Maybe choose your commitment time. Maybe you’ll just choose until the next podcast comes out. Maybe you’ll choose 10 days, 30 days. Maybe you’ll choose a year and see what God does in those moments. For me, I have this lasting memory of when my sisters and I decided we were going to read through God’s word together.

[00:20:43] And I remember my younger sister saying I can’t wait to see how different we are after this year. And. If I’m honest, my reaction was, I don’t know what you’re talking about. I grew up in the church. I knew so much about the Bible and I thought I knew so much about the Bible. But I was different. I learned so much that year.

[00:21:05]I am changed.  This  podcast would not be happening if it was not for that challenge to read through the Bible that year and to see what God was going to do in my life and to see what promises I was going to learn to stand on and to see the characteristics of my God that I didn’t yet know.

[00:21:25]Guy’s looking at the Bible and wondering where to start is a big challenge. It’s a big overwhelming task. And so I have a couple ideas for you. One, you can try out the YouVersion Bible. They have tons of reading plans. Start small, start big.

[00:21:42] I’m actually doing their reading plan this year, the chronological Bible. And I’m really, really enjoying it. There’s another resource, Bible project. Their app is called read scripture. I did that two years ago and it is wonderful. You get to a new place in the Bible and there is a video explaining to you what you’re about to read. So, so helpful.

[00:22:06] And I have another idea. I have told you a little bit about the journaling resource that I have when you sign up for my newsletter and I want to again, offer that to you guys that is a five day resource and it is specifically designed to help you to look at scripture and to put scripture alongside of choices you’re making. To help us think about the next steps that God might have for us in our life. Looking at scriptures. And how do we apply those things as we make choices in our lives.

[00:22:37] So I would love to give you guys that,  it’s actually at my website, Erinmichele.net/freeresource/   and also I get tricky here. Michele is spelled with one L so it’s E R I N M I C H E L e.net forward slash free resource. I would love to give that to you guys.   I’m going to put the link as to where you can find that.

[00:23:05] We are coming to the end of season one. I have loved doing this podcast with you guys. I have learned so much and I am working on season two already. I don’t yet have the date of when that’s coming out yet, though. Those details will be available in my newsletter when I know it, so please sign up so we can stay in touch so I can let you know what’s going on.

[00:23:31]I will still be on Instagram. In fact, I’m hoping in this time away to be engaging more in Instagram, to be engaging in different conversations. I would love to do that with you guys. So you can find me at steps to trusting on both Instagram and Facebook,  but I am more often on Instagram.

[00:23:50]There are also some new and fun things I am thinking about for next season. And I’m looking for people to participate. So if you are wanting to participate, please reach out to me. The best way for you to contact me is to go ahead and to reach out to me on Instagram.

[00:24:08] I am in my DMS.  I do react in comments. So if you guys want to connect with me, connect with me there @stepstotrusting .  I want to close us in prayer.

[00:24:18] Dear God, I thank you. And I praise you that we can know you in your word.  I thank you. And I praise you that your word does not return void.

[00:24:28] I thank you and I praise you that you invite us to know you. And so Lord,  I pray  for each one of these listeners, Lord, no matter where they are in their journey, no matter how often they are used to being in your word, Lord God, that they would make a commitment to read your word, that they would see what that is like.

[00:24:48] And Lord that the more that they. Do that the more they get a glimpse of who you are, the more they would want to be in your word on a regular basis. Lord God grow in our hearts a love for your word and Lord, a love for you. Help us to know the promises that we stand on and to trust you.

[00:25:08] Lord God help us in our trust to keep on stepping with you. It’s in Jesus’ name. I pray amen.

[00:25:17]Friends.  We will be back next week and the rest of my conversation with Bethany  is going to be on there. You don’t want to miss it. Bethany has so much wisdom. I couldn’t fit it all in one podcast. So check that out next week.

[00:25:32]I split it into two shows to help us to be able to focus on the wisdom that she put before us today. Couple of the things that I’m taking away that I just want to remind you to meditate on there is a daily need to surrender. It’s not something we do and forget, but daily, we need to surrender to the Lord

[00:25:53]and that when we surrender, God will gently lead us.

[00:25:58]Looking forward to being back here with you next time, but until then, I want to leave you with this reminder from Ephesians two 10 for we are God’s workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Friends, I am praying for you as you keep on stepping.